diff --git a/apps/client/src/features/control/message/TimerPreview.tsx b/apps/client/src/features/control/message/TimerPreview.tsx
index 8f35c22ca..3bc0af1dd 100644
--- a/apps/client/src/features/control/message/TimerPreview.tsx
+++ b/apps/client/src/features/control/message/TimerPreview.tsx
@@ -107,7 +107,7 @@ export default function TimerPreview() {
           <LuArrowDownToLine />
         </Tooltip>
         <Tooltip
-          text={isGroupTimerActive ? 'Views are showing the shared group timer' : 'Views are showing the event timer'}
+          text={`Timer views are showing the ${isGroupTimerActive ? 'shared group timer' : 'event timer'}`}
           render={<span />}
           className={style.statusIcon}
           data-active={isGroupTimerActive}
diff --git a/apps/client/src/views/editor/pip-timer/PipTimer.tsx b/apps/client/src/views/editor/pip-timer/PipTimer.tsx
index 80f82ba37..76a46427c 100644
--- a/apps/client/src/views/editor/pip-timer/PipTimer.tsx
+++ b/apps/client/src/views/editor/pip-timer/PipTimer.tsx
@@ -10,7 +10,7 @@ import {
   getIsPlaying,
   getSecondaryDisplay,
   getShowMessage,
-  getShowProgressBar,
+  getShowsTimerValue,
   resolveTimerDisplay,
 } from '../../timer/timer.utils';
 import { getTimerColour } from '../../utils/presentation.utils';
@@ -40,7 +40,8 @@ export function PipTimer({ viewSettings }: PipTimerProps) {
   const { showFinished, showWarning, showDanger } = timerDisplay;
 
   const isPlaying = getIsPlaying(time.playback);
-  const showProgressBar = getShowProgressBar(timerTypeNow);
+  const showsTimerValue = getShowsTimerValue(timerTypeNow);
+  const showProgressBar = showsTimerValue;
 
   // gather timer data
   const stageTimer = getTimerByType(false, timerTypeNow, clock, timerDisplay.source, timerTypeNow);
@@ -87,7 +88,7 @@ export function PipTimer({ viewSettings }: PipTimerProps) {
         >
           {display}
         </div>
-        {timerDisplay.isGroup && <div className='group-indicator'>group</div>}
+        {timerDisplay.isGroup && showsTimerValue && <div className='group-indicator'>group</div>}
         <div className={cx(['secondary', !secondaryContent && 'secondary--hidden'])}>
           <FitText mode='multi' min={12} max={256}>
             {secondaryContent}
diff --git a/apps/client/src/views/timer/Timer.tsx b/apps/client/src/views/timer/Timer.tsx
index d75788e3a..9069bc6cb 100644
--- a/apps/client/src/views/timer/Timer.tsx
+++ b/apps/client/src/views/timer/Timer.tsx
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ import {
   getSecondaryDisplay,
   getShowClock,
   getShowMessage,
-  getShowProgressBar,
+  getShowsTimerValue,
   resolveTimerDisplay,
 } from './timer.utils';
 import { TimerData, useTimerData } from './useTimerData';
@@ -92,7 +92,8 @@ function Timer({ customFields, projectData, isMirrored, settings, viewSettings,
   const { showEndMessage, showFinished, showWarning, showDanger } = timerDisplay;
   const isPlaying = getIsPlaying(time.playback);
   const showClock = !hideClock && getShowClock(viewTimerType);
-  const showProgressBar = !hideProgress && getShowProgressBar(viewTimerType);
+  const showsTimerValue = getShowsTimerValue(viewTimerType);
+  const showProgressBar = !hideProgress && showsTimerValue;
 
   // gather card data
   const { showNow, nowMain, nowSecondary, showNext, nextMain, nextSecondary } = getCardData(
@@ -186,7 +187,9 @@ function Timer({ customFields, projectData, isMirrored, settings, viewSettings,
             {display}
           </div>
         )}
-        {timerDisplay.isGroup && !showEndMessage && <div className='group-indicator'>group</div>}
+        {timerDisplay.isGroup && showsTimerValue && !showEndMessage && (
+          <div className='group-indicator'>group</div>
+        )}
         <div className={cx(['secondary', !secondaryContent && 'secondary--hidden'])}>
           <FitText mode='multi' min={64} max={256}>
             {secondaryContent}
diff --git a/apps/client/src/views/timer/__tests__/timer.utils.test.ts b/apps/client/src/views/timer/__tests__/timer.utils.test.ts
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..cb1ca446d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/apps/client/src/views/timer/__tests__/timer.utils.test.ts
@@ -0,0 +1,110 @@
+import { GroupTimerState, Playback, TimerPhase, TimerState, TimerType } from 'ontime-types';
+
+import { getShowsTimerValue, resolveTimerDisplay } from '../timer.utils';
+
+const makeTime = (patch: Partial<TimerState> = {}): TimerState => ({
+  addedTime: 0,
+  current: 10000,
+  duration: 60000,
+  elapsed: 50000,
+  expectedFinish: null,
+  phase: TimerPhase.Default,
+  playback: Playback.Play,
+  secondaryTimer: null,
+  startedAt: null,
+  ...patch,
+});
+
+const makeGroupTimer = (patch: Partial<GroupTimerState> = {}): GroupTimerState => ({
+  current: 100000,
+  elapsed: 80000,
+  duration: 180000,
+  ...patch,
+});
+
+const resolve = (time: TimerState, groupTimer: GroupTimerState | null) =>
+  resolveTimerDisplay({
+    time,
+    groupTimer,
+    event: { timeWarning: 120000, timeDanger: 60000 },
+    timerType: TimerType.CountDown,
+    countToEnd: false,
+    freezeOvertime: false,
+    freezeMessage: '',
+    hidePhase: false,
+  });
+
+describe('resolveTimerDisplay()', () => {
+  it('uses the event timer when there is no group timer', () => {
+    const time = makeTime();
+    const result = resolve(time, null);
+
+    expect(result.isGroup).toBe(false);
+    expect(result.source).toBe(time);
+    expect(result.total).toBe(60000);
+    expect(result.warning).toBe(120000);
+    expect(result.danger).toBe(60000);
+  });
+
+  it('adds the time added to an event into the event total', () => {
+    expect(resolve(makeTime({ addedTime: 30000 }), null).total).toBe(90000);
+  });
+
+  it('uses the group timer when one is present', () => {
+    const groupTimer = makeGroupTimer();
+    const result = resolve(makeTime(), groupTimer);
+
+    expect(result.isGroup).toBe(true);
+    expect(result.source).toBe(groupTimer);
+    expect(result.total).toBe(180000);
+  });
+
+  it('drops the event thresholds while showing the group', () => {
+    const result = resolve(makeTime({ phase: TimerPhase.Danger }), makeGroupTimer());
+
+    expect(result.warning).toBeUndefined();
+    expect(result.danger).toBeUndefined();
+  });
+
+  it.each([TimerPhase.Warning, TimerPhase.Danger])(
+    'reports the group as running while the event is in %s',
+    (phase) => {
+      const result = resolve(makeTime({ phase }), makeGroupTimer());
+
+      expect(result.phase).toBe(TimerPhase.Default);
+      expect(result.showWarning).toBe(false);
+      expect(result.showDanger).toBe(false);
+      expect(result.showFinished).toBe(false);
+    },
+  );
+
+  it('reports overtime only once the group itself has run out of time', () => {
+    const overrunningEvent = makeTime({ current: -5000, phase: TimerPhase.Overtime });
+
+    // the event is over, but the group still has time left
+    const stillRunning = resolve(overrunningEvent, makeGroupTimer({ current: 60000 }));
+    expect(stillRunning.phase).toBe(TimerPhase.Default);
+    expect(stillRunning.showFinished).toBe(false);
+
+    const overtime = resolve(overrunningEvent, makeGroupTimer({ current: -1000 }));
+    expect(overtime.phase).toBe(TimerPhase.Overtime);
+    expect(overtime.showFinished).toBe(true);
+  });
+
+  it.each([TimerPhase.Pending, TimerPhase.None])('keeps the %s playback phase on the group', (phase) => {
+    // these describe the playback state rather than a threshold, so they are true of the group too
+    expect(resolve(makeTime({ phase }), makeGroupTimer()).phase).toBe(phase);
+  });
+});
+
+describe('getShowsTimerValue()', () => {
+  it('is true for timer types which render the running timer', () => {
+    expect(getShowsTimerValue(TimerType.CountDown)).toBe(true);
+    expect(getShowsTimerValue(TimerType.CountUp)).toBe(true);
+  });
+
+  it('is false for timer types which do not reflect what is loaded', () => {
+    expect(getShowsTimerValue(TimerType.Clock)).toBe(false);
+    expect(getShowsTimerValue(TimerType.None)).toBe(false);
+  });
+});
diff --git a/apps/client/src/views/timer/timer.utils.ts b/apps/client/src/views/timer/timer.utils.ts
index 58b19d052..99a95139d 100644
--- a/apps/client/src/views/timer/timer.utils.ts
+++ b/apps/client/src/views/timer/timer.utils.ts
@@ -36,9 +36,11 @@ export function getTotalTime(duration: MaybeNumber, addedTime: MaybeNumber): num
 }
 
 /**
- * Whether the progress bar should be shown for this timer type
+ * Whether this timer type renders a value derived from the running timer.
+ * Clock shows the time of day and none shows nothing, so neither reflects what is loaded,
+ * which also means neither can carry a progress bar or a group timer indicator
  */
-export function getShowProgressBar(timerType: TimerType) {
+export function getShowsTimerValue(timerType: TimerType) {
   return timerType !== TimerType.None && timerType !== TimerType.Clock;
 }
 
@@ -147,11 +149,13 @@ export function resolveTimerDisplay({
   hidePhase,
 }: ResolveTimerDisplayOptions) {
   const isGroup = groupTimer !== null;
-  const phase = isGroup
-    ? groupTimer.current <= 0
-      ? TimerPhase.Overtime
-      : TimerPhase.Default
-    : time.phase;
+  const phase = (() => {
+    if (!isGroup) return time.phase;
+    // pending and none describe the playback state rather than a threshold,
+    // they are just as true of the group as they are of the event
+    if (time.phase === TimerPhase.Pending || time.phase === TimerPhase.None) return time.phase;
+    return groupTimer.current <= 0 ? TimerPhase.Overtime : TimerPhase.Default;
+  })();
 
   return {
     isGroup,
diff --git a/apps/server/src/api-mcp/mcp.service.ts b/apps/server/src/api-mcp/mcp.service.ts
index 4fbeafef4..3e1b0de37 100644
--- a/apps/server/src/api-mcp/mcp.service.ts
+++ b/apps/server/src/api-mcp/mcp.service.ts
@@ -54,7 +54,9 @@ export type EventFieldArgs = Partial<
 >;
 export type MilestoneFieldArgs = Partial<Pick<OntimeMilestone, 'cue' | 'title' | 'note' | 'colour' | 'custom'>>;
 export type DelayFieldArgs = Partial<Pick<OntimeDelay, 'duration'>>;
-export type GroupFieldArgs = Partial<Pick<OntimeGroup, 'title' | 'note' | 'colour' | 'targetDuration' | 'custom'>>;
+export type GroupFieldArgs = Partial<
+  Pick<OntimeGroup, 'title' | 'note' | 'colour' | 'targetDuration' | 'custom' | 'useGroupTimer'>
+>;
 
 export type EntryFieldArgs = EventFieldArgs & MilestoneFieldArgs & DelayFieldArgs & GroupFieldArgs;
 export type TargetRundownArgs = { rundownId?: string };
@@ -170,6 +172,7 @@ function toGroupPatch(args: CreateEntryArgs, id: EntryId): PatchWithId<OntimeGro
   if (args.colour !== undefined) patch.colour = args.colour;
   if (args.targetDuration !== undefined) patch.targetDuration = args.targetDuration;
   if (args.custom !== undefined) patch.custom = args.custom;
+  if (args.useGroupTimer !== undefined) patch.useGroupTimer = args.useGroupTimer;
 
   return Object.keys(patch).length > 1 ? patch : null;
 }